how much of an impact do you think nelson mandela has had on prison obama? >> well, i was standing just a few feet away from then senator obama in 2006 when he was touring robben island. i had a sense his first trip was a pilgrimage. he started his career, as everyone noted, his interest in politics being an anti-apartheid protesters. coming to robben island, getting the tour, seeing for himself, walking in the path where mandela was. you know, the picture you have on now is on his second visit. this one was last june. he did strike is some of the same pose. but you would do that. because you're looking through the -- you're in the steps of a man who lived the life who walked the walk. and i think on his first trip, seeing it for the first time, the enormity of what it was like to live under those conditions for so many years. when you see the limestone quarry that you had to stare out day after day in the blinding sun you could see there was a sense of -- i don't want to say emotion, but a sense of seeing history that influenced you come alive in your life.